Crap, I lost the link. But I read online musings today that privately and
unofficially, the WC guys are applauding the drivers and CART’s decision not
to race at TMS. They all say the same thing, that the track is a horrible
death just waiting to happen. CART should have not been there in the first
place, but they did the smart thing and are keeping drivers alive. had this
been the 1960′s in Formula One, we would all be talking about the three or
four deaths at the track this weekend, instead of the race that didn’t
happen. CART has set a fantastic precedent, considering drivers and fans
lifes first, and profits second. There will be a lawsuit, but its a bullet
the entire racing community should be thankful that CART took.
once again, just stating the obvious.
___________________
m|I|s|T|e|R|_|o|B|v|I|o|U|s
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
M|iS|t|E|r|_|o|B|v|I|o|U|s wrote:
> Crap, I lost the link. But I read online musings today that privately and
> unofficially, the WC guys are applauding the drivers and CART’s decision not
> to race at TMS. They all say the same thing, that the track is a horrible
> death just waiting to happen. CART should have not been there in the first
> place, but they did the smart thing and are keeping drivers alive. had this
> been the 1960′s in Formula One, we would all be talking about the three or
> four deaths at the track this weekend, instead of the race that didn’t
> happen. CART has set a fantastic precedent, considering drivers and fans
> lifes first, and profits second. There will be a lawsuit, but its a bullet
> the entire racing community should be thankful that CART took.
CART made their money, they had already received the entire fee from
TMS, which they don’t want to give back. Yes indeed, CART is perfectly
willing to put the profits of OTHER people second. Damn big of ‘em.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> once again, just stating the obvious.
> ___________________
> m|I|s|T|e|R|_|o|B|v|I|o|U|s
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
M|iS|t|E|r|_|o|B|v|I|o|U|s wrote:
> Crap, I lost the link. But I read online musings today that privately and
> unofficially, the WC guys are applauding the drivers and CART’s decision not
> to race at TMS. They all say the same thing, that the track is a horrible
> death just waiting to happen. CART should have not been there in the first
> place, but they did the smart thing and are keeping drivers alive. had this
> been the 1960′s in Formula One, we would all be talking about the three or
> four deaths at the track this weekend, instead of the race that didn’t
> happen. CART has set a fantastic precedent, considering drivers and fans
> lifes first, and profits second. There will be a lawsuit, but its a bullet
> the entire racing community should be thankful that CART took.
If the track is such a "horrible death" waiting to happen why has there
been only one death in 4 years of racing?
You CART homers just amaze me. You aren’t satisfied to follow the style
of racing of racing you prefer, you have to go on a jihad against other
forms of racing and tracks that don’t meet your preconceived notions of
what racing ought to be. You try to mask CART’s incompetence with
politically correct pronouncements they did the right and honorable
thing for driver and fan safety (and yes it was the correct decision for
safety) all the while completely ignoring the fact they fucked thousands
of people with poor decision making staring with the time the contract
was signed for the race and continuing up until noon Sunday.
CART has mentioned adding a season ending race at TMS. If you owned the
California track that has the last race would you be happy? They are
considering screwing someone else to try to make up the TMS debacle.
And they will probably delay ticket refunds while thrashing about trying
to "make it up to the fans" when everyone knows they can’t reimburse all
expenses fans incurred even if they wanted to, they don’t have enough
money to do that. I think the full page newspaper apology that was
mentioned is about the best they could do, admit they fucked up big time
and set up procedures and methods to ensure this doesn’t happen again.
And by the way, the entire racing community is wondering why CART shot
themselves in the first place. The other racing organizations that
perform adequate due diligence are wondering what in hell CART was
thinking and getting a pretty good laugh out it.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> once again, just stating the obvious.
> ___________________
> m|I|s|T|e|R|_|o|B|v|I|o|U|s
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
RG <gill…@home.com> wrote in message news:3AEFEDEC.A14A7CD9@home.com…
> M|iS|t|E|r|_|o|B|v|I|o|U|s wrote:
> > Crap, I lost the link. But I read online musings today that privately
and
> > unofficially, the WC guys are applauding the drivers and CART’s
decision not
> > to race at TMS. They all say the same thing, that the track is a
horrible
> > death just waiting to happen. CART should have not been there in the
first
> > place, but they did the smart thing and are keeping drivers alive. had
this
> > been the 1960′s in Formula One, we would all be talking about the three
or
> > four deaths at the track this weekend, instead of the race that didn’t
> > happen. CART has set a fantastic precedent, considering drivers and
fans
> > lifes first, and profits second. There will be a lawsuit, but its a
bullet
> > the entire racing community should be thankful that CART took.
> If the track is such a "horrible death" waiting to happen why has there
> been only one death in 4 years of racing?
That’s one death too many IMO. Nice of you to discount Tony Roper like
that.
–
Ron Payne,
accipi…@usanospam.net
See my Field Guide To Open Wheel Race Cars:
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/cosworth/274/field_guide.html
………………………………………………………..~o^=o>
Reply to group or E-mail address in message text.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Wed, 02 May 2001 11:15:58 GMT, RG <gill…@home.com> wrote:
>M|iS|t|E|r|_|o|B|v|I|o|U|s wrote:
>> Crap, I lost the link. But I read online musings today that privately and
>> unofficially, the WC guys are applauding the drivers and CART’s decision not
>> to race at TMS. They all say the same thing, that the track is a horrible
>> death just waiting to happen. CART should have not been there in the first
>> place, but they did the smart thing and are keeping drivers alive. had this
>> been the 1960′s in Formula One, we would all be talking about the three or
>> four deaths at the track this weekend, instead of the race that didn’t
>> happen. CART has set a fantastic precedent, considering drivers and fans
>> lifes first, and profits second. There will be a lawsuit, but its a bullet
>> the entire racing community should be thankful that CART took.
>If the track is such a "horrible death" waiting to happen why has there
>been only one death in 4 years of racing?
>You CART homers just amaze me. You aren’t satisfied to follow the style
>of racing of racing you prefer, you have to go on a jihad against other
>forms of racing and tracks that don’t meet your preconceived notions of
>what racing ought to be. You try to mask CART’s incompetence with
>politically correct pronouncements they did the right and honorable
>thing for driver and fan safety (and yes it was the correct decision for
>safety) all the while completely ignoring the fact they fucked thousands
>of people with poor decision making staring with the time the contract
>was signed for the race and continuing up until noon Sunday.
>CART has mentioned adding a season ending race at TMS. If you owned the
>California track that has the last race would you be happy? They are
>considering screwing someone else to try to make up the TMS debacle.
>And they will probably delay ticket refunds while thrashing about trying
>to "make it up to the fans" when everyone knows they can’t reimburse all
>expenses fans incurred even if they wanted to, they don’t have enough
>money to do that. I think the full page newspaper apology that was
>mentioned is about the best they could do, admit they fucked up big time
>and set up procedures and methods to ensure this doesn’t happen again.
>And by the way, the entire racing community is wondering why CART shot
>themselves in the first place. The other racing organizations that
>perform adequate due diligence are wondering what in hell CART was
>thinking and getting a pretty good laugh out it.
>> once again, just stating the obvious.
I would argue that F1 is the safest form of motor racing for the
Drivers and the Fans (not necessarily so for the corner workers at the
moment, but I think that will be fixed quickly with the computerized
yellow speed control and the automated corner flags).
This might seem morbid, but its good to remember
If you just count total deaths in the last 10 years. F1 has 4 from my
knowledge. Senna, Ratzenberger, and the two course workers in the
last few months. F1 also went almost 13 years without any fatality
before Ratzenberger was killed.
IRL hasn’t been racing that long, but they’ve lost what 2 in a few
years and some spectators.
and CART has a couple, the Toronto crash killed 2, Greg Moore,
spectators from debris. Am I forgetting anyone
and Winston cup is completely out of control. Those saloon cars are
coffins on 4 wheels. Seems like at least one unfortunate driver per
year. And its the slowest of the 4 series here!
James
would appreciate any feedback if I forgot something.
In article <3AEFEDEC.A14A7…@home.com>, RG <gill…@home.com> wrote:
> If the track is such a "horrible death" waiting to happen why has there
> been only one death in 4 years of racing?
Jeff Gordon, the greatest driver in NASCAR, had his hardest crash, ever,
at Texas. It was truly scary.
Bruton’s bowls are death pits. Know this: If Atlanta would have been sold
out, there would DEFINITELY have been deaths on Saturday.
In article <4p70ft45sqp5mgb50oulg1s3um84llq…@4ax.com>, Fusilier
<30…@republicoftexas.org> wrote:
> I would argue that F1 is the safest form of motor racing for the
> Drivers and the Fans
Too funny. They still fill F1 cars with gasoline, do they not?
"RG" <gill…@home.com> wrote
Sigh. Still bitchin’ and moanin’…
> You CART homers just amaze me. You aren’t satisfied to follow the
> style of racing of racing you prefer…
Nice of you to issue a blanket indictment of everyone here. Including
all of those who mostly agree with you.
> you have to go on a jihad against other forms of racing and tracks
> that don’t meet your preconceived notions of what racing ought
> to be.
Do you have any idea how many of your NASCAR brethren
endlessly yippity-yap about how NASCAR is the be-all-end-all of
auto racing? We won’t even begin to get into the IRL vs. CART wars or
the F1 vs. CART wars. You need to narrow your spray pattern
just a tad. Every group of fans has a subset that dislikes "the other".
This is hardly something on which CART has cornered the market.
Britney Spears fans dislike Christina Aguilera, etc.
You’re the one who seems to be on a "jihad". Here it is Wednesday and
you’re still yammering on about how awful CART is, how they
wronged the planet, how anyone here who doesn’t immediately jump onto
your anti CART crusade "amazes" you. Jihad indeed.
> You try to mask CART’s incompetence with politically correct
> pronouncements they did the right and honorable thing for driver
> and fan safety (and yes it was the correct decision for
> safety)
Then it wasn’t a "politically correct" thing to do. It was THE correct
thing to do. And who is trying to mask CART’s incompetence? I
know that *I* agreed with your basic premise three days ago. All of
the racing commentators agree with it. What more do you want?
> all the while completely ignoring the fact they fucked thousands
> of people with poor decision making staring with the time the contract
> was signed for the race and continuing up until noon Sunday.
I think you’ve made this point before. Like maybe 25 times in the past
four days. Take a tranquilizer.
> CART has mentioned adding a season ending race at TMS. If you owned
> the California track that has the last race would you be happy? They
> are considering screwing someone else to try to make up the TMS
> debacle.
Jihad indeed. If they do nothing, you bitch. If they try and make
good on the thing, you bitch. If I owned the California track I’d be
happy if they filled the stands for me. Period. (Which they do, btw.)
Besides, you have NO IDEA what they are considering, who they have
talked to, whether or not they intend to "screw someone else",
etc. Get real.
> And they will probably delay ticket refunds while thrashing about
> trying to "make it up to the fans"
"They" in this case, would be TMS, not CART. Rule of thumb: a successful
jihad requires focus.
> when everyone knows they can’t reimburse all expenses fans incurred
> even if they wanted to, they don’t have enough money to do that. I
> think the full page newspaper apology that was mentioned is about
> the best they could do, admit they fucked up big time and set up
> procedures and methods to ensure this doesn’t happen again.
If they did that would you quit yer bitchin? Probably not.
> And by the way, the entire racing community is wondering why
> CART shot themselves in the first place. The other racing
> organizations that perform adequate due diligence are wondering
> what in hell CART was thinking and getting a pretty good laugh
> out it.
I was unaware that you have such an intimate relationship with "the
entire racing community" that allows you to speak for "the
entire racing community". Could you get me an introduction to Michael
Schumacher? Dan Gurney? Bill France? Have you been sharing the
laughs with them at their favorite watering holes?
///
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Accipiter wrote:
> RG <gill…@home.com> wrote in message news:3AEFEDEC.A14A7CD9@home.com…
> > M|iS|t|E|r|_|o|B|v|I|o|U|s wrote:
> > > Crap, I lost the link. But I read online musings today that privately
> and
> > > unofficially, the WC guys are applauding the drivers and CART’s
> decision not
> > > to race at TMS. They all say the same thing, that the track is a
> horrible
> > > death just waiting to happen. CART should have not been there in the
> first
> > > place, but they did the smart thing and are keeping drivers alive. had
> this
> > > been the 1960′s in Formula One, we would all be talking about the three
> or
> > > four deaths at the track this weekend, instead of the race that didn’t
> > > happen. CART has set a fantastic precedent, considering drivers and
> fans
> > > lifes first, and profits second. There will be a lawsuit, but its a
> bullet
> > > the entire racing community should be thankful that CART took.
> > If the track is such a "horrible death" waiting to happen why has there
> > been only one death in 4 years of racing?
> That’s one death too many IMO. Nice of you to discount Tony Roper like
> that.
I’m not discounting anyone, but if you look at the number of races at
TMS vs the number of deaths it hardly qualifies as a "horrible death
waiting to happen". Racing is a dangerous sport any way to slice it.
People have died, and will continue to die from racing cars, boats,
horses
airplanes, motorcycles, and anything else that humans strap themselves
into to race. When people go fast in mechanical creations some are going
to die. Inspite of all the precautions sometimes people just die.
I would suggest that racing fans, by supporting the races, encourage
people to take the chances associated with racing. If you don’t want to
have any deaths or injuries from racing stop encouraging people to race.
BTW, I was there the night Tony Roper died and even though I didn’t know
that he died until the next morning, it was clear that he was in bad
shape given the time it took to remove him from the pickup. I didn’t
like that he was in a terrible wreck, but he was doing something that he
wanted to do and something he knew people die from. He knew the risks
and he accepted them, just as everyone who races does.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> —
> Ron Payne,
> accipi…@usanospam.net
> See my Field Guide To Open Wheel Race Cars:
> http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/cosworth/274/field_guide.html
> ………………………………………………………..~o^=o>
> Reply to group or E-mail address in message text.
> I’m not discounting anyone, but if you look at the number of races at
> TMS vs the number of deaths it hardly qualifies as a "horrible death
> waiting to happen".
There are numerous race tracks with longer histories that have zero
fatalities, and had Gugelmin not been wearing his HANS device, he easily
could have been number two. (his head rest was broken in several pieces from
the wreck, I’ll remind you that the headrest is made out of Carbon fibre,
which is stronger than steel…) Would it have taken a death on the track
for you to realize that the race should not have been run?.
You haven’t read what I’ve posted. I agree the cars were too fast for
the track and the race should not have been run. My point is that CART
should have known that and either not scheduled the race or made changes
that would have allowed a safe race from performing adequate testing or
computer modeling or even listened to some of their drivers that said
the cars were too fast for the track. Instead they did nothing and
caused 60,000 people to spend money for nothing. The term is due
diligence and they didn’t do it. I’m waiting for the first stockholder
lawsuit.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Jason Höhn wrote:
> > I’m not discounting anyone, but if you look at the number of races at
> > TMS vs the number of deaths it hardly qualifies as a "horrible death
> > waiting to happen".
> There are numerous race tracks with longer histories that have zero
> fatalities, and had Gugelmin not been wearing his HANS device, he easily
> could have been number two. (his head rest was broken in several pieces from
> the wreck, I’ll remind you that the headrest is made out of Carbon fibre,
> which is stronger than steel…) Would it have taken a death on the track
> for you to realize that the race should not have been run?.
Brian Jackson wrote:
> "RG" <gill…@home.com> wrote
> Sigh. Still bitchin’ and moanin’…
Quit reading my posts if they bother you.
> > You CART homers just amaze me. You aren’t satisfied to follow the
> > style of racing of racing you prefer…
> Nice of you to issue a blanket indictment of everyone here. Including
> all of those who mostly agree with you.
No it isn’t a blanket indictment of everyone here, mainly you (although
you are not as bad as others) Brian "CART can do no wrong" Sweeney, and
others. You know who you are.
> > you have to go on a jihad against other forms of racing and tracks
> > that don’t meet your preconceived notions of what racing ought
> > to be.
> Do you have any idea how many of your NASCAR brethren
> endlessly yippity-yap about how NASCAR is the be-all-end-all of
> auto racing? We won’t even begin to get into the IRL vs. CART wars or
> the F1 vs. CART wars. You need to narrow your spray pattern
> just a tad. Every group of fans has a subset that dislikes "the other".
> This is hardly something on which CART has cornered the market.
> Britney Spears fans dislike Christina Aguilera, etc.
There you go jumping to incorrect conclusions assuming that I’m a NASCAR
fan. I have watched a few NASCAR races on TV, the only NASCAR race I
have been to is the truck race that Tony Roper was killed in. I couldn’t
tell you who the points leader is or what manufacturer is leading, or
where the last race was or where the next race is nor do I own any
articles of clothing that reflect NASCAR or any other racing
organization. No, I am not what you would call a NASCAR fan.
Normally homers for various things don’t bother me but in this case they
do. I was there Sunday, or at least on the way there and I saw a bunch
of the people that were screwed by CART.
A question for you homers, if CART did nothing wrong why in the hell are
they considering a newspaper full page apology?? They know they fucked
up, the only question remaining is what they are gonna do about it. The
homers in this NG won’t even admit they fucked up.
> You’re the one who seems to be on a "jihad". Here it is Wednesday and
> you’re still yammering on about how awful CART is, how they
> wronged the planet, how anyone here who doesn’t immediately jump onto
> your anti CART crusade "amazes" you. Jihad indeed.
Damn right, it is a holy war for me. I intend to do everything I can
(which is really nothing) to make it hard for CART.
Don’t you wonder what Federal Express thinks about this? A rock solid
reliable company built on service and taking care of it’s customer
sponsoring an organization like CART. Wonder how hard they are pushing
CART to make amends? Pretty damned hard I bet. And Firestone, after the
tire debacle I bet they really enjoy having their name associated with
this cluster fuck.
> > You try to mask CART’s incompetence with politically correct
> > pronouncements they did the right and honorable thing for driver
> > and fan safety (and yes it was the correct decision for
> > safety)
> Then it wasn’t a "politically correct" thing to do. It was THE correct
> thing to do. And who is trying to mask CART’s incompetence? I
> know that *I* agreed with your basic premise three days ago. All of
> the racing commentators agree with it. What more do you want?
I want to see what CART does. The idea of adding a race at the end is
crazy. If it counts in the championship then the fans in California are
not getting what they bargained for which is was a season ending race.
If it doesn’t count in the standings then it is nothing more than a
practice if that.
Giving free tickets to the race in Houston won’t help people that can’t
go to Houston, and I suspect that would be most of the 60k fans. Holding
a "sweepstakes to attend a race outside of Texas" would be good for the
few that won but how many trips you think they would give away? 2, 10,
100, 1000, 60,000? I bet it would be closer to 10. That would only make
things worse.
I think the only thing they can do is the full page newspaper apology.
Just admit in no uncertain terms that they screwed the pooch from the
very beginning. Come clean, say they are sorry and go from there. Be a
man about it.
> > all the while completely ignoring the fact they fucked thousands
> > of people with poor decision making staring with the time the contract
> > was signed for the race and continuing up until noon Sunday.
> I think you’ve made this point before. Like maybe 25 times in the past
> four days. Take a tranquilizer.
Again I would advise you not to read my posts if that bothers you.
> > CART has mentioned adding a season ending race at TMS. If you owned
> > the California track that has the last race would you be happy? They
> > are considering screwing someone else to try to make up the TMS
> > debacle.
> Jihad indeed. If they do nothing, you bitch. If they try and make
> good on the thing, you bitch. If I owned the California track I’d be
> happy if they filled the stands for me. Period. (Which they do, btw.)
> Besides, you have NO IDEA what they are considering, who they have
> talked to, whether or not they intend to "screw someone else",
> etc. Get real.
Straight from the horses mouth:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports_day/auto/354694_02cart.html
To summarize, it discusses the newspaper apology, tickets to Houston as
well as a "sweepstakes". All direct quotes from Heitzler. Maybe I do
know what they are considering.
> > And they will probably delay ticket refunds while thrashing about
> > trying to "make it up to the fans"
> "They" in this case, would be TMS, not CART. Rule of thumb: a successful
> jihad requires focus.
See, that is the CART homer in you coming out, TMS is a victim here just
as the fans are. What did TMS do wrong? Allow CART to sign a contract
for a race? The only thing I see that TMS did wrong was assume that CART
would do due diligence and make proper preparations for conducting a
race.
> > when everyone knows they can’t reimburse all expenses fans incurred
> > even if they wanted to, they don’t have enough money to do that. I
> > think the full page newspaper apology that was mentioned is about
> > the best they could do, admit they fucked up big time and set up
> > procedures and methods to ensure this doesn’t happen again.
> If they did that would you quit yer bitchin? Probably not.
Yes it would. What else can they really do? Nothing that I can see.
> > And by the way, the entire racing community is wondering why
> > CART shot themselves in the first place. The other racing
> > organizations that perform adequate due diligence are wondering
> > what in hell CART was thinking and getting a pretty good laugh
> > out it.
> I was unaware that you have such an intimate relationship with "the
> entire racing community" that allows you to speak for "the
> entire racing community". Could you get me an introduction to Michael
> Schumacher? Dan Gurney? Bill France? Have you been sharing the
> laughs with them at their favorite watering holes?
"Yawn". You can do better than that.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> ///
In article <3AEFEDEC.A14A7…@home.com>, RG <gill…@home.com> wrote:
>If the track is such a "horrible death" waiting to happen why has there
>been only one death in 4 years of racing?
Wow, that is quite the record to fall back on. Only one death in
(less than) four years. Whoopee.
John
OTOH, there may not be another one for 20 years.
"John Clarke" <jcla…@nortel.ca> wrote in message
news:9cpjtl$kog$1@bmerhc5e.ca.nortel.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Wow, that is quite the record to fall back on. Only one death in
> (less than) four years. Whoopee.
> John
An apology isn’t necessarily an admission. It’s good P.R. But there is no
doubt in my mind that CART knows they did the fans wrong, even if for the
right reasons.
"RG" <gil…@antennaproducts.com> wrote in message
news:3AF052A9.CCB1D21A@antennaproducts.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> A question for you homers, if CART did nothing wrong why in the hell are
> they considering a newspaper full page apology?? They know they fucked
> up, the only question remaining is what they are gonna do about it. The
> homers in this NG won’t even admit they fucked up.
>and Winston cup is completely out of control. Those saloon cars are
>coffins on 4 wheels. Seems like at least one unfortunate driver per
>year. And its the slowest of the 4 series here!
Winston Cup has had 5 drivers die in the past 10 years. Not to say that there’s
not room for improvement (with two of those accidents in the past 12 months),
or that I’m understating it, but its not one per year.
-
Alan
In article <ScXH6.82180$Zn4.911…@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>,
Jason Höhn <jasonho…@home.com.spam> wrote:
>There are numerous race tracks with longer histories that have zero
>fatalities, and had Gugelmin not been wearing his HANS device, he easily
>could have been number two. (his head rest was broken in several pieces from
>the wreck, I’ll remind you that the headrest is made out of Carbon fibre,
>which is stronger than steel…)
Yes, but carbon fiber is also far more *brittle* than steel. Backing
into the wall that hard often scrambles drivers’ brains.
– Chuck, non-partisan race fan
> OTOH, there may not be another one for 20 years.
And thanx to CART’s decision, there at least won’t be one from their ranks.
And thats precisely the point. Racing shouldn’t be that dangerous.
I’m not defending, CART’s decision to go to TMS in the first place (that was
a mistake, right off…) but thank god CART had the balls to say they
weren’t racing when they thought their drivers live’s were in danger.
Whomever thought about going to TMS in the first place was missing the boat.
its a narrow, fast and dangerous track.
Plus there is always the old "buyer beware" arguement. lots of people bought
tickets (and I do empathize with you, thats a lot of money to shell out)
under the knowledge that TMS was not the safest venue for the race. From day
one, people were tlaking about hte possiblity that the race may get
cancelled. There were warning signs from the beginning. So really, when you
bought your ticket, you were taking a chance that the race may not be run,
and you knew it…
I’m not syaing its good, but thats the way it is. the decision to go to TMS
was a bad one from the outset. Its just to bad CART didn’t realize that from
the get go.
Everyone is pissed off, TMS, CART, the fans,…
Everyone except the drivers, and those are the guys risking their lives.
On 02 May 2001 19:13:59 GMT, deadandrestl…@aol.comkrisiun (Alan
Conceicao) wrote:
>>and Winston cup is completely out of control. Those saloon cars are
>>coffins on 4 wheels. Seems like at least one unfortunate driver per
>>year. And its the slowest of the 4 series here!
>Winston Cup has had 5 drivers die in the past 10 years. Not to say that there’s
>not room for improvement (with two of those accidents in the past 12 months),
>or that I’m understating it, but its not one per year.
Who are the 5 drivers? I can only think of JD McDuffey. Kulwicki and
D.Allison died off the track. C.Allison crashed in Busch. So did
Petty. What about Irwin?
> Quit reading my posts if they bother you.
I’m just curious as to just what it is about this that has your panties
all in a knot.
> No it isn’t a blanket indictment of everyone here, mainly you
> (although you are not as bad as others)
Gee, and I *agreed* with you. If you’re so riled up that you’re still
hacking away at those who agree with you, maybe it’s time to rethink.
> > Do you have any idea how many of your NASCAR brethren…
> Normally homers for various things don’t bother me but in this
> case they do. I was there Sunday, or at least on the way there
> and I saw a bunch of the people that were screwed by CART.
You know, there are a *lot* of more pressing and worthy causes that
need volunteers than the "TMS attendees screwed by CART"
cause does.
> A question for you homers, if CART did nothing wrong why in
> the hell are they considering a newspaper full page apology??
> They know they fucked up, the only question remaining is what
> they are gonna do about it. The homers in this NG won’t even
> admit they fucked up.
How many times and how loudly do I have to say it? *I* admit they
screwed up, ok?? As do most folks here. Repeat after me…
> > You’re the one who seems to be on a "jihad".
> Damn right, it is a holy war for me. I intend to do everything
> I can (which is really nothing) to make it hard for CART.
WHY?????? As you point out, the only thing you are actually doing is
irritating racing fans who enjoy CART racing. Nothing you say here will
affect anything. At this point you’re really just trolling.
> Don’t you wonder what Federal Express thinks about this?
Not really. FedEx really isn’t all that concerned with CART either way.
> A rock solid reliable company built on service and taking care of
> it’s customer sponsoring an organization like CART.
This has been a theme of yours all along – that CART’s primary purpose
and responsibility is to the fans. ‘Taint so. CART’s number one
responsibility is to its shareholders. Then its sponsors. Then its
business associates.THEN the fans.
In one post you said:
:: I would suggest that racing fans, by supporting the races,
:: encourage people to take the chances associated with racing.
:: If you don’t want to have any deaths or injuries from racing
:: stop encouraging people to race.
This is naive. People race because it’s in the human nature to be
competitive. They don’t do it because they have an audience. In fact,
many (most?) of the drivers are fairly shy and don’t like the crowds.
> Wonder how hard they are pushing CART to make amends? Pretty
> damned hard I bet.
I’d take that bet. I’d say it’s pretty certain that, while there may
have been a phone call or two about it all, FedEx is not "pressing hard"
for anything. In all the stories about this in all the papers, web
sites, and on TV, not once have I seen the name "FedEx" mentioned.
Ergo, FedEx is fine with it.
> And Firestone, after the tire debacle I bet they really enjoy
> having their name associated with this cluster fuck.
They’re probably happy to have someone else be in the news for a change.
> I want to see what CART does. The idea of adding a race at the
> end is crazy. If it counts in the championship then the fans in
> California are not getting what they bargained for which is was
> a season ending race. If it doesn’t count in the standings then
> it is nothing more than a practice if that.
Silly statements. The first premise only counts if the championship
hasn’t been decided yet. Besides, if the race’s contract calls for
"last race of the season" status then the point is moot. The second
premise is false on the face of it. Most people don’t attend races
because a championship is being decided. They do so because they
enjoy the sights, sounds, event, etc. There are no championships
being decided at Indianapolis, Le Mans, Monaco, Long Beach,
Sebring, Spa, etc., etc., etc. Yet people seem to find those races
interesting nonetheless.
> Giving free tickets to the race in Houston won’t help people
> that can’t go to Houston, and I suspect that would be most of
> the 60k fans. Holding a "sweepstakes to attend a race outside
> of Texas" would be good for the few that won but how many trips
> you think they would give away? 2, 10, 100, 1000, 60,000? I bet
> it would be closer to 10. That would only make things worse.
You’re just babbling now. It should be obvious to all your (remaining)
readers that nothing they do will satisfy you. You haven’t thought this
through very well. You have no "solution" in mind. You just want to
rage against the machine and bay at the moon. Fine.
> I think the only thing they can do is the full page newspaper
> apology. Just admit in no uncertain terms that they screwed
> the pooch from the very beginning. Come clean, say they are
> sorry and go from there. Be a man about it.
This, coming from the premier whiner on this subject. Physician, heal
thyself. The totality of your "injury" in all this is that you had
to drive part way to the track, drive back, and you’ll have to deal with
the hassle of getting a ticket refund. And yet you feel this righteous
indignation about all this that is, as I said previously, grossly
disproportionate to the "harm" done to you.
> Again I would advise you not to read my posts if that bothers you.
I’m no longer going to. You have nothing constructive, positive,
enlightening, or, for that matter, even racing related to say.
> > Besides, you have NO IDEA what they are considering, who they
> > have talked to, whether or not they intend to "screw someone
> > else", etc. Get real.
> Straight from the horses mouth:
> http://www.dallasnews.com/sports_day/auto/354694_02cart.html
The Dallas newspaper is "the horse’s mouth"?? I’ll say it again,
neither you nor I have anything but the barest hints at what is really
going on in those discussions. If you think that the local newspaper is
the best source for accurate, detailed, up-to-date information on such a
thing as this…
> To summarize, it discusses the newspaper apology, tickets to Houston
> as well as a "sweepstakes". All direct quotes from Heitzler. Maybe
> I do know what they are considering.
I read it. It also says precisely what I told you two days ago when you
ranted on about "how come they didn’t call it off on Saturday?"
–> Regarding CART’s decision to wait until two hours before the
–> scheduled start to announce the postponement, Heitzler said
–> it was because every conceivable effort was made to salvage
–> the race.
–>
–> He said CART didn’t learn until Saturday that there was a
–> widespread problem of drivers experiencing vertigo in practice
–> and qualifying. Meetings were held into the night and through
–> the next morning aimed at finding a way to safely slow the cars.
–> Every change that could be made with the cars and parts that
–> were on hand introduced a new risk, so a solution was never
–> found.
Let’s not be TOO selective in what we quote, ok?
> > > And they will probably delay ticket refunds while thrashing
> > > about trying to "make it up to the fans"
> > "They" in this case, would be TMS, not CART.
> See, that is the CART homer in you coming out, TMS is a victim
> here just as the fans are. What did TMS do wrong?
Pay attention. You’re wrath is affecting your ability to read clearly.
You suggested that CART would delay ticket refunds. That money is in
the hands of TMS, not CART. If TMS wanted to give you the money today
they could. CART does *not* have your ticket money. Is that clear
enough?
> > > And by the way, the entire racing community is wondering why
> > > CART shot themselves in the first place. The other racing
> > > organizations that perform adequate due diligence are wondering
> > > what in hell CART was thinking and getting a pretty good laugh
> > > out it.
> > I was unaware that you have such an intimate relationship with
> > "the entire racing community" that allows you to speak for "the
> > entire racing community". Could you get me an introduction to
> > Michael Schumacher? Dan Gurney? Bill France? Have you been
> > sharing the laughs with them at their favorite watering holes?
> "Yawn". You can do better than that.
Ok.
You do not speak for the entire racing community. Nor do you
any way of knowing what the "entire racing community" is
thinking.
You are getting your information from the Dallas newspaper.
You are assuming facts not in evidence.
You are making stuff up to support your unwarranted holy war.
How’s that?
And for those same reasons, you’re into the kill file…
///
>Who are the 5 drivers? I can only think of JD McDuffey. Kulwicki and
>D.Allison died off the track. C.Allison crashed in Busch. So did
>Petty. What about Irwin?
McDuffie, Irwin, Bonnett, Orr, and, the most obvious, Dale Earnhardt.
-
Alan
On 02 May 2001 23:17:15 GMT, deadandrestl…@aol.comkrisiun (Alan
Conceicao) wrote:
>>Who are the 5 drivers? I can only think of JD McDuffey. Kulwicki and
>>D.Allison died off the track. C.Allison crashed in Busch. So did
>>Petty. What about Irwin?
>McDuffie, Irwin, Bonnett, Orr, and, the most obvious, Dale Earnhardt.
>-
> Alan
Hmm missed the most obvious. Must have been sleeping.