It just dawned on me that the two oldest guys in the series are 1-2
You think they sit aorund the old folks home between races going "Them
whipper-snappers dunno nuthin’,.. When I was there age we had pop off valves
that would let go for no reason, and you didn’t hear us complaining!!! We
liked it!!…." Do you think Moreno shakes his fist at the young guys
screaming "SLOW DOWN!!!!!!….."
_____________________________________
"Everyones a genius, just being themselves…"
— Neal Cassady
jasonho…@home.com
N. Richard Caldwell <n…@cbemg.cb.lucent.com> wrote in message
news:8knmpg$8j7@nntpa.cb.lucent.com…
> Since I’ve been away from rasc dreining has been having a field day
> with his Cleveland capacity conspiracy.
[extremely large SNIP!]
Glad you’re back man! I think we’d all had enough of his whining ‘your
crowds smaller than mine! Nah! Nah! Nah!’
Paul.
Crossposters should be shot…
In article <8knmpg$…@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>,
N. Richard Caldwell <n…@cbemg.cb.lucent.com> wrote:
>Since I’ve been away from rasc dreining has been having a field day
>with his Cleveland capacity conspiracy.
Bravo on a rather excellent refutation of Davey "don’t need no countin" Reininger’s
claims. I knew right away it was an inability to count past twenty that screwed
him.
Thank god for him he isn’t missing a finger or toe, or the math would have been
a lot harder (lets see now 19 seats times …)
John
In article <8knmpg$…@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>, N. Richard Caldwell wrote:
>Okay, exhibit one: Our seats.
>Stand K, Section 3, Row 2, Seats 20 & 21
I’m didn’t get past this line. ROW 2????!!!! What did you do wrong to
end up in such a low row? Could you see anything?
—
James C. West (Jim) jw…@okstate.edu
Professor jw…@emag.ecen.okstate.edu
Electrical and Computer Engineering
Oklahoma State University
In article <slrn8muppa.r71.jw…@emag.ecen.okstate.edu>,
Jim West <jw…@emag.ecen.okstate.edu> wrote:
>In article <8knmpg$…@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>, N. Richard Caldwell wrote:
>>Okay, exhibit one: Our seats.
>>Stand K, Section 3, Row 2, Seats 20 & 21
>I’m didn’t get past this line. ROW 2????!!!! What did you do wrong to
>end up in such a low row? Could you see anything?
Are you sure they don’t number the rows from the top of the
grandstands? They do in Toronto…
John
In article <slrn8muppa.r71.jw…@emag.ecen.okstate.edu>,
Jim West <jw…@emag.ecen.okstate.edu> wrote:
>In article <8knmpg$…@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>, N. Richard Caldwell wrote:
>>Okay, exhibit one: Our seats.
>>Stand K, Section 3, Row 2, Seats 20 & 21
>I’m didn’t get past this line. ROW 2????!!!! What did you do wrong to
>end up in such a low row? Could you see anything?
In Cleveland row number 1 is at the top, so we could see just great.
Stand K is a little far down the line turn one, but it’s part of a bus
trip with a group from Columbus, so it’s a nice package.
–
N. Richard Caldwell
Lucent Technologies
n…@lucent.com
Jim West wrote:
> In article <8knmpg$…@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>, N. Richard Caldwell wrote:
> >Okay, exhibit one: Our seats.
> >Stand K, Section 3, Row 2, Seats 20 & 21
> I’m didn’t get past this line. ROW 2????!!!! What did you do wrong to
> end up in such a low row? Could you see anything?
We were in section D3, 4th row and it was four rows from the top. Great
seats right behind the TKG pits.
Newton
In article <8knt8d$…@nntpb.cb.lucent.com>, N. Richard Caldwell wrote:
>In article <slrn8muppa.r71.jw…@emag.ecen.okstate.edu>,
>Jim West <jw…@emag.ecen.okstate.edu> wrote:
>>I’m didn’t get past this line. ROW 2????!!!! What did you do wrong to
>>end up in such a low row? Could you see anything?
>In Cleveland row number 1 is at the top, so we could see just great.
This never occured to me. Jeez, I’m dense. *LOL*
—
James C. West (Jim) jw…@okstate.edu
Professor jw…@emag.ecen.okstate.edu
Electrical and Computer Engineering
Oklahoma State University
In article <8knmpg$…@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>,
n…@cbemg.cb.lucent.com (N. Richard Caldwell)
wrote:
> Since I’ve been away from rasc dreining has
been having a field day
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> with his Cleveland capacity conspiracy.
> On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:31:21 GMT, dreining@my-
deja.com wrote:
> >If you’ve been following closely so far,
you’ll remember
> >that I counted the number of seats in
Grandstand J.
> >> >Check the ticket brochure, it has 25 rows.
It has four
> >sections, each with 20 seats. Plug those
numbers into
> >Univac and *PRESTO*, we come up with 2,000
seats in J.
> You’re wrong, dreining.
> >Having walked from the paddock to J (remember,
for the
> >Atlantic race) it seems to me each of the
grandstands
> >are approximately the same width. That would
be 80 seats
> >(again, 4 sections, each with 20 seats).
> I believe that most of the stands are the same
length but
> again, you’re wrong about the number of seats.
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 15:36:44 GMT, dreining@my-
deja.com wrote:
> >But then again, some are smaller. Grandstand K
is much smaller
> >than H. I think it seats around 1,200 at best.
> Again, you’re wrong.
> Oh, I suppose you want proof. Because us
CARTisians are just
> swallowing the big lie hook, line and sinker,
and after all, you
> counted the seats, right?
> Okay, exhibit one: Our seats.
> Stand K, Section 3, Row 2, Seats 20 & 21
> But wait, it gets better. We were nowhere
near the end of the row.
> In fact, I would say that we were pretty much
right in the center of
> section 3. So if I were going to estimate the
number of seats in
> Stand K, Section 3 I would say there are 40
seats per row.
> I can hear dreining scoffing from
here. "Impossible!" he cries, "I
> counted stand J and stand K was much smaller!"
> So we’re on to…
> Exhibit 2: An ebay auction for seats in stand
J:
> http://cgi.ebay.icq.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=373453985&ed=963254743
> The seller doesn’t state the seat numbers, but
if you load the image
> in a viewer and zoom in you can clearly see the
seat numbers:
> Stand J, Section 2, Row 5, Seats 35 & 36
> Gee dreining, you must have missed those seats
while you were counting.
> Exhibit 3: Someone offering seats on 7th Gear:
http://www.seventhgear.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005467.
html
> Stand C2, Section 2, Row 2, Seats 20 & 21
> Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner.
Dreining’s got them "Can’t
> count past 20 blues!"
> So dreining, would you like to apologize to the
group for flat out
> lying about counting the seats in stand J, or
shall we just stick
> with the explanation that you can’t count past
20?
> Okay, because I’m such a nice guy, I’m going to
explain how dreining
> probably isn’t as stupid as this makes him
look, he’s just really,
> really focused on his agenda of bashing CART.
Now pay attention
> dreining, I know how you like this stuff
explained real slow.
> I believe most of the main stands in Cleveland
are laid out the same way:
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxx1xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx2xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx3xxxxxxxxx xxxxx4xxxx
> Most of the stands have three aisles with 20
seats on each side of
> every aisle. This makes sense for both access
and construction.
> It also gives you 20 seats per row in sections
1 and 4 and 40 seats per
> row in sections 2 and 3. That’s 120 seats per
row in each stand, not
> 80 as dreining would like to think.
> So we can see where dreining went wrong. He
probably looked at the
> number of seats in section 1 or 4 and assumed
that they were the same
> for all four sections. The seed of his
conspiracy theory was planted,
> so he strapped his blinders on and set out full
speed ahead to prove it
> by counting stands instead of looking at the
sections a little more
> closely.
> There are some exceptions to this layout. I
believe that some of the
> stands near turn one and the Marconi stand
actually had 4 aisles.
> I verified the Marconi stand by pausing my Tivo
recording of the race,
> but because of the camera angles you never see
stands A-D on the race
> broadcast. Four aisles would probably
translate to 160 seats per row
> in those stands
> I’m not going to figure the numbers up stand by
stand, because aside
> from the Marconi stand, I’d just be guessing
about how many of the
> stands have 160 seats per row. With 120 seats
per row the average number
> of seats in each main stand is somewhere around
3000. With 13 main
> stands, that adds up to 39,000 seats. When you
add in extra from
> stands with more than 120 seats, club seats,
the stands in the paddock
> suites and the suites you can easily come up
with between 45 and 50
> thousand seats. When you add a lot of $18
Sunday general admission
> tickets the 69,000 race day attendance reported
by the plain dealer
> is entirely plausible.
> Thanks dreining, you worked really hard to
ensure that I’d have some
> thoroughly entertaining reading when I finally
got back.
> —
> N.
Richard Caldwell
> Lucent
Technologies
n…@lucent.com
> The guy who posted the original message has
been using the same arguement for years. He use
to post the same arguement on speedvision before
they changed their format. I have a freind who
works at IMG and the seat count released was
accurate
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
In article <8knmpg$…@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>,
n…@cbemg.cb.lucent.com (N. Richard Caldwell)
wrote:
> Since I’ve been away from rasc dreining has
been having a field day
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> with his Cleveland capacity conspiracy.
> On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:31:21 GMT, dreining@my-
deja.com wrote:
> >If you’ve been following closely so far,
you’ll remember
> >that I counted the number of seats in
Grandstand J.
> >Check the ticket brochure, it has 25 rows. It
has four
> >sections, each with 20 seats. Plug those
numbers into
> >Univac and *PRESTO*, we come up with 2,000
seats in J.
> You’re wrong, dreining.
> >Having walked from the paddock to J (remember,
for the
> >Atlantic race) it seems to me each of the
grandstands
> >are approximately the same width. That would
be 80 seats
> >(again, 4 sections, each with 20 seats).
> I believe that most of the stands are the same
length but
> again, you’re wrong about the number of seats.
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 15:36:44 GMT, dreining@my-
deja.com wrote:
> >But then again, some are smaller. Grandstand K
is much smaller
> >than H. I think it seats around 1,200 at best.
> Again, you’re wrong.
> Oh, I suppose you want proof. Because us
CARTisians are just
> swallowing the big lie hook, line and sinker,
and after all, you
> counted the seats, right?
> Okay, exhibit one: Our seats.
> Stand K, Section 3, Row 2, Seats 20 & 21
> But wait, it gets better. We were nowhere
near the end of the row.
> In fact, I would say that we were pretty much
right in the center of
> section 3. So if I were going to estimate the
number of seats in
> Stand K, Section 3 I would say there are 40
seats per row.
> I can hear dreining scoffing from
here. "Impossible!" he cries, "I
> counted stand J and stand K was much smaller!"
> So we’re on to…
> Exhibit 2: An ebay auction for seats in stand
J:
> http://cgi.ebay.icq.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=373453985&ed=963254743
> The seller doesn’t state the seat numbers, but
if you load the image
> in a viewer and zoom in you can clearly see the
seat numbers:
> Stand J, Section 2, Row 5, Seats 35 & 36
> Gee dreining, you must have missed those seats
while you were counting.
> Exhibit 3: Someone offering seats on 7th Gear:
http://www.seventhgear.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005467.
html
> Stand C2, Section 2, Row 2, Seats 20 & 21
> Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner.
Dreining’s got them "Can’t
> count past 20 blues!"
> So dreining, would you like to apologize to the
group for flat out
> lying about counting the seats in stand J, or
shall we just stick
> with the explanation that you can’t count past
20?
> Okay, because I’m such a nice guy, I’m going to
explain how dreining
> probably isn’t as stupid as this makes him
look, he’s just really,
> really focused on his agenda of bashing CART.
Now pay attention
> dreining, I know how you like this stuff
explained real slow.
> I believe most of the main stands in Cleveland
are laid out the same way:
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
> xxxx1xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx2xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx3xxxxxxxxx xxxxx4xxxx
> Most of the stands have three aisles with 20
seats on each side of
> every aisle. This makes sense for both access
and construction.
> It also gives you 20 seats per row in sections
1 and 4 and 40 seats per
> row in sections 2 and 3. That’s 120 seats per
row in each stand, not
> 80 as dreining would like to think.
> So we can see where dreining went wrong. He
probably looked at the
> number of seats in section 1 or 4 and assumed
that they were the same
> for all four sections. The seed of his
conspiracy theory was planted,
> so he strapped his blinders on and set out full
speed ahead to prove it
> by counting stands instead of looking at the
sections a little more
> closely.
> There are some exceptions to this layout. I
believe that some of the
> stands near turn one and the Marconi stand
actually had 4 aisles.
> I verified the Marconi stand by pausing my Tivo
recording of the race,
> but because of the camera angles you never see
stands A-D on the race
> broadcast. Four aisles would probably
translate to 160 seats per row
> in those stands
> I’m not going to figure the numbers up stand by
stand, because aside
> from the Marconi stand, I’d just be guessing
about how many of the
> stands have 160 seats per row. With 120 seats
per row the average number
> of seats in each main stand is somewhere around
3000. With 13 main
> stands, that adds up to 39,000 seats. When you
add in extra from
> stands with more than 120 seats, club seats,
the stands in the paddock
> suites and the suites you can easily come up
with between 45 and 50
> thousand seats. When you add a lot of $18
Sunday general admission
> tickets the 69,000 race day attendance reported
by the plain dealer
> is entirely plausible.
> Thanks dreining, you worked really hard to
ensure that I’d have some
> thoroughly entertaining reading when I finally
got back.
> —
> N.
Richard Caldwell
> Lucent
Technologies
n…@lucent.com
I am almost certain that the guy who posted the
original post was posting almost the exact same
post last year on speedvision, before they
changed their software. You would think if he
was at the race he would have actually checked
the stands. It tells you something when he did
not. A friend of mine is very high up at IMG and
he confirmed the number of seats was as stated
many times in the local media. Denny Young from
IMG stated week earlier on local radio they were
putting in 58k seats. The original post was just
sour grapes
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sorry I was having a problem.I am almost certain that the guy this
subject originally posted almost the exact same post last year on
speedvision, before they changed their software. If he was at the
race he would have actually checked the stands and found that they
have 40 seats in many sections. A friend of mine is very high up at
IMG and he confirmed the number of seats was as stated many times in
the local media. Denny Young from IMG stated weeks before the race on
local radio they were putting in 58k seats. Additionally in all past
years the independent auditors report which is submitted to the city,
and is available under Ohio public access law has always confirmed
announced numbers, although paid attendance varies from total
attendance.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
See, I wonder what Dave’s thoughts on IMG’s seat count would have been if
Cleveland had been an IRL race this year.
You know how it is:
CART-affiliated = liars, cheats, and frauds
IRL-affiliated = all that is good and holy
Would IMG have suddenly because virtuous if they hadn’t backflipped on
Cleveland?
John Clarke (jcla…@nortel.ca) wrote:
: In article <8knmpg$…@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>,
: N. Richard Caldwell <n…@cbemg.cb.lucent.com> wrote:
: >Since I’ve been away from rasc dreining has been having a field day
: >with his Cleveland capacity conspiracy.
: Bravo on a rather excellent refutation of Davey "don’t need no countin" Reininger’s
: claims. I knew right away it was an inability to count past twenty that screwed
: him.
: Thank god for him he isn’t missing a finger or toe, or the math would have been
: a lot harder (lets see now 19 seats times …)
: John
Maybe he was counting in octal and didn’t realize it.
–
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